Art Collector, no. 68, 2014.
Robert Leonard interviews Michael Zavros.
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Robert Leonard: Your upcoming Starkwhite show is named after your self portrait Bad Dad, made for the 2013 Archibald Prize. In the painting, you’re in the pool, checking out your own reflection..
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Michael Zavros: I was inspired by seeing Caravaggio’s Narcissus (ca. 1597-9) in Rome. Caravaggio simplifies things by isolating Narcissus in darkness. Narcissus and his reflection make a circle, leaving a dark void in the centre of the painting. By contrast, I pump up the background noise to heighten the sense of paralysis, the stillness.
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Where are the kids? Neglected, clearly. But we only imagine this because of the title. Are you feeling guilty?
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When you become a dad, its almost impossible to be self reflective—as I am too often—without feeling guilt. Once you’re a father, you can never not be a one—it is defining. So, that narcissistic gesture can only ever be through the lens of that experience.
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You said the pool toys are a homage to Jeff Koons. What do you like most about Koons?
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His speaking voice. It reminds me of TV evangelists. I like the way he poses in front of his work, arms outstretched, welcoming his flock. When he calls his Puppy ‘a contemporary sacred heart of Jesus’, he means it. Koons said he began making the joyous inflatables to reach out to his son Ludwig Maximilian, exiled in Rome with his ex-wife Ilona Staller. I love Koons’s enthusiasm for his subjects and his deadpan, cheesy manner.
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The show will include Phoebe Is Dead/McQueen (2010). It imagines your daughter dead, wrapped in an Alexander McQueen skull-pattern scarf. When you painted it, McQueen had just committed suicide following the death of his mother. Can tragedy be beautiful?
.
Perhaps not tragedy, but melancholy can be beautiful. The best pop songs are the sad ones. Last night, I was watching 56 Up (2012), the latest in the 7 Up series. Its views of British middle-aged people’s lives, full of failure and remorse, are intercut with poetic flashbacks to their bright-eyed youths, full of hope and optimism. And I thought, ‘Isn’t that beautiful, isn’t that sad.’
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You’ll also be showing your 2010 video showing Phoebe dancing to Lady Gaga’s ‘Paparazzi’ while you paint. The little monster is wearing a tutu, dark glasses, and mouseketeer ears. What’s your position on Gaga?
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At age four, Phoebe was obsessed with that song and entranced by Gaga’s artifice. She saw that Gaga was not afraid to be ugly for her art. Gaga may be the perfect role model for a little girl. Phoebe is still a fan. We bought her Gaga concert tickets for her birthday.
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Are you a permissive dad?
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Yes, but I’m also a disciplinarian. ‘Yes, you can wear that age-inappropriate T-shirt, but tuck it in and brush your teeth.’
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You just painted a small portrait of Phoebe in sunglasses. She’s getting older. Do you plan to keep painting her?
.
Yes. She’s my muse. She’s a fantastic model. She turns it on for the camera, and for me, in a way that’s compelling and confronting. Of all my children, she feels the most like me outside of me. My Phoebe works are all self-portraits.
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These days, child-protection campaigners project all sorts of anxieties onto tame images of children.
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I’m bothered by those knee-jerk responses. They seem bereft of intelligence or consideration. For me, my children are my triumph, but they also hold up a mirror to my failings. Having children has made me think more keenly about everything. Before I had them, I didn’t fear death.
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You are known for painting ‘trophies’. Are children trophies?
.
They can be. But you have to find the right child. It took Madonna weeks to find the right one in Malawi.
.
[IMAGE: Michael Zavros Bad Dad 2013]
.
Robert Leonard: Your upcoming Starkwhite show is named after your self portrait Bad Dad, made for the 2013 Archibald Prize. In the painting, you’re in the pool, checking out your own reflection..
.
Michael Zavros: I was inspired by seeing Caravaggio’s Narcissus (ca. 1597-9) in Rome. Caravaggio simplifies things by isolating Narcissus in darkness. Narcissus and his reflection make a circle, leaving a dark void in the centre of the painting. By contrast, I pump up the background noise to heighten the sense of paralysis, the stillness.
.
Where are the kids? Neglected, clearly. But we only imagine this because of the title. Are you feeling guilty?
.
When you become a dad, its almost impossible to be self reflective—as I am too often—without feeling guilt. Once you’re a father, you can never not be a one—it is defining. So, that narcissistic gesture can only ever be through the lens of that experience.
.
You said the pool toys are a homage to Jeff Koons. What do you like most about Koons?
.
His speaking voice. It reminds me of TV evangelists. I like the way he poses in front of his work, arms outstretched, welcoming his flock. When he calls his Puppy ‘a contemporary sacred heart of Jesus’, he means it. Koons said he began making the joyous inflatables to reach out to his son Ludwig Maximilian, exiled in Rome with his ex-wife Ilona Staller. I love Koons’s enthusiasm for his subjects and his deadpan, cheesy manner.
.
The show will include Phoebe Is Dead/McQueen (2010). It imagines your daughter dead, wrapped in an Alexander McQueen skull-pattern scarf. When you painted it, McQueen had just committed suicide following the death of his mother. Can tragedy be beautiful?
.
Perhaps not tragedy, but melancholy can be beautiful. The best pop songs are the sad ones. Last night, I was watching 56 Up (2012), the latest in the 7 Up series. Its views of British middle-aged people’s lives, full of failure and remorse, are intercut with poetic flashbacks to their bright-eyed youths, full of hope and optimism. And I thought, ‘Isn’t that beautiful, isn’t that sad.’
.
You’ll also be showing your 2010 video showing Phoebe dancing to Lady Gaga’s ‘Paparazzi’ while you paint. The little monster is wearing a tutu, dark glasses, and mouseketeer ears. What’s your position on Gaga?
.
At age four, Phoebe was obsessed with that song and entranced by Gaga’s artifice. She saw that Gaga was not afraid to be ugly for her art. Gaga may be the perfect role model for a little girl. Phoebe is still a fan. We bought her Gaga concert tickets for her birthday.
.
Are you a permissive dad?
.
Yes, but I’m also a disciplinarian. ‘Yes, you can wear that age-inappropriate T-shirt, but tuck it in and brush your teeth.’
.
You just painted a small portrait of Phoebe in sunglasses. She’s getting older. Do you plan to keep painting her?
.
Yes. She’s my muse. She’s a fantastic model. She turns it on for the camera, and for me, in a way that’s compelling and confronting. Of all my children, she feels the most like me outside of me. My Phoebe works are all self-portraits.
.
These days, child-protection campaigners project all sorts of anxieties onto tame images of children.
.
I’m bothered by those knee-jerk responses. They seem bereft of intelligence or consideration. For me, my children are my triumph, but they also hold up a mirror to my failings. Having children has made me think more keenly about everything. Before I had them, I didn’t fear death.
.
You are known for painting ‘trophies’. Are children trophies?
.
They can be. But you have to find the right child. It took Madonna weeks to find the right one in Malawi.
.
[IMAGE: Michael Zavros Bad Dad 2013]